1 1 STATE OF INDIANA ) IN THE KOSCIUSKO COUNTY COURT )ss: 2 COUNTY OF KOSCIUSKO ) Cause No. 43C01-0310-PL-731 3 CONCERNED CITIZENS FOR QUALITY EDUCATION ) 4 INC., an Indiana not-for-profit corporation; ) MARY GREEN; VALLERIE A. ROWLAND; REBECCA S. ) 5 THOMAS and GORDON H. VANATOR, ) ) 6 Plaintiffs, ) ) 7 vs. ) ) 8 WARSAW COMMUNITY SCHOOL CORPORATION; DR. ) DAVID McGUIRE, Individually and as ) 9 Superintendent of the Warsaw Community School ) Corporation; RANDE THORPE, Individually and ) 10 as CFO of the Warsaw Community School ) Corporation; CRAIG ALLEBACH, LARRY CHAMBERLIN,) 11 CATHY FOLK, JAMES FOLK, MARK MINATEL, RON ) YEITER, and GENE ENGLAND, Individually and as ) 12 Members of the Board of Trustees of Warsaw ) Community School Corporation, ) 13 ) Defendants. ) 14 15 The Deposition of Jim Folk 16 Date: Friday, May 28, 2004 17 Time: 2:53 p.m. 18 Place: 1 Administrative Drive Warsaw, Indiana 19 20 Called as a witness herein in accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure 21 22 Before Lori F. Matthaidess, Certified Shorthand Reporter 23 SUMMIT CITY REPORTING, INC. 24 Certified Shorthand Reporters 3492-B Stellhorn Road 25 Fort Wayne, Indiana 46815 2 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 For the Plaintiffs: 4 John R. Price Attorney At Law 5 John R. Price & Associates 9000 Keystone Crossing 6 Suite 150 Indianapolis, Indiana 46240 7 (317) 844-8822 8 9 For the Defendants: 10 Thomas E. Wheeler Attorney At Law 11 Locke Reynolds, L.L.P. 201 North Illinois Street 12 Suite 1000 P.O. Box 44961 13 Indianapolis, Indiana 46244 (317) 237-3800 14 15 Also Present: 16 David McGuire Rande Thorpe 17 Max Reed Jeff Dotson 18 Lisa McCoy 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 INDEX 2 The Deposition of Jim Folk 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 By Mr. Price................................ Page 4 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION 6 By Mr. Wheeler.............................. Page 27 7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 8 By Mr. Price................................ Page 28 9 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 10 By Mr. Wheeler.............................. Page 29 11 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION 12 By Mr.Price................................. Page 30 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 Jim Folk, 2 being previously duly sworn 3 testified as follows: 4 DIRECT EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. PRICE: 6 Q. State your name please. 7 A. Jim Folk. 8 Q. And you've been here through two exciting 9 depositions so you know the rules. Are there any 10 questions that you have? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Have you ever been deposed before? 13 A. No. 14 Q. What is your address, sir? 15 A. 315 Gillam Drive, Warsaw. 16 Q. Is your health status good? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. If you need a break at any time point, just tell 19 me, as I said to everybody else. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. What's your marital status? 22 A. Married. 23 Q. Children. 24 A. Three. 25 Q. How about educational background? 5 1 A. I have an undergraduate degree from Manchester 2 College in business education and accounting, and 3 I have two masters from Indiana University, one in 4 business education and one in business and 5 production management. 6 Q. I heard that you say you had two master's from IU 7 but I missed what they were. 8 A. One is in business education and one is in 9 business and production management. 10 Q. And I should have stated to you, as I did to the 11 other two witnesses, if my questions are not clear 12 or you don't understand them, if you will tell me 13 and I'll rephrase them or repeat them, and if you 14 don't, I will assume that you understood the 15 question; is that fair? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Tell me a little bit about your-- I know you used 18 to be a teacher. What's your work background? 19 A. Well, before I graduated from college, I started 20 with a company in Leesburg called Milford Machine 21 as the bookkeeper, and I worked there 22 approximately, I don't know, 5, 6, 7 years and 23 they sold the company, and they wanted me to go to 24 to the site where they sold it, and I didn't. I 25 went to Creighton Brothers as a cost accountant. 6 1 And-- 2 Q. They're in Leesburg? 3 A. Yes. I was there 10 years. 4 Q. Did you ever know Hobart (phonetic)? 5 A. Oh, yes. I was his secretary, one of them. 6 Q. What did you do there besides that? 7 A. Cost accounting and he was heavy into 8 extracurricular things like the Boy Scouts and 9 things and I was continuously taking dictation for 10 him. 11 Q. I think he ran for office at one point? 12 A. For governor, and then in '64, I decided there 13 were too many Creightons for me to get ahead so I 14 went to teaching school. 15 Q. Where did you start teaching? 16 A. I started in Claypool when it was the high 17 school. 18 Q. Would you agree with the statement that I made 19 earlier that Claypool is a fine educational 20 structure? 21 A. Yes. It isn't the one that was there when I 22 was. 23 Q. They've improved it? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Was the gym there when you were there? 7 1 A. Yes. I think that's about all that's left. 2 Q. And what did you teach at Claypool? 3 A. All of the business subjects. 4 Q. That's when it was a high school? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. How long did you teach? 7 A. Two years there. 8 Q. Okay. And then where did you go? 9 A. Then in the fall of '66, I came to Warsaw High 10 School as a business teacher. 11 Q. Okay. How long did you do that? 12 A. 35 years. 13 Q. 35 years? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And then did you retire? 16 A. In '98. 17 Q. Okay. And while you were there during the 35 18 years, did you continuously teach business 19 courses? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Are you on the board of trustees of Warsaw 22 Community School Corporation? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. When were you elected? 25 A. 2000. 8 1 Q. Did you have any prior government experience 2 before that? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you vote for Dr. McGuire's recommendation to 5 close Atwood, Claypool and Silver Lake and 6 transfer the 437 students to six of the seven 7 remaining elementary schools? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. I notice as I sit in the room here today, and I'm 10 looking over your shoulder as what's behind you, 11 is this the room in which the board of trustees 12 has public meetings? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. I notice that there's at least a name plaque in 15 the middle for Dr. McGuire, and as Tom has I've 16 been to a lot of board of trustees meetings, and I 17 know that each school corporation does it 18 differently. In many of them I see the 19 superintendent and sometimes the CFO sitting in 20 front presenting to the board. I have seen some 21 where the superintendent has been seated with the 22 board. Have you attended school board meetings 23 for any period of time beyond the time that you 24 were on the school board? 25 A. No. 9 1 Q. During the period of time that you've been on the 2 school board, has the superintendent always sat in 3 the middle of the school board? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Who runs the meetings? 6 A. The president of the school board. 7 Q. In this case it would be Craig Allebach? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. When Dr. McGuire recommended closing the three 10 schools, did he give you any other options in his 11 recommendation? 12 A. Well, the ones we've been discussing. The most 13 feasible one was closing the three schools. 14 Q. You're going to need to help me. I understood him 15 to say the only recommendation he had was the 16 closing of the three, and let me rephrase because 17 I may have confused it. In September 2003, when 18 he came to the school board and made a formal 19 recommendation to close, at that time did he give 20 any other options besides that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did anybody on the board, any of the seven people, 23 ask if there were any other options available at 24 that time because the minutes don't reflect that 25 but maybe-- 10 1 A. I don't know if they did. 2 Q. I think what you just said is that you didn't-- 3 maybe you did. Did you ever get to hear Dr. 4 McGuire's predescessor make recommendations at 5 school board meetings? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. When he made recommendations, did he give more 8 than one option? 9 A. I don't know for sure. 10 Q. Okay. When Dr. McGuire recommended closing the 11 three schools, did he refer to any professional 12 educational study in support of his 13 recommendation? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. Do you know how long on August 18, 2003-- I think 16 I misspoke a minute ago when I said September. On 17 August 18, 2003, when Dr. McGuire's recommendation 18 was on the table, do you know how long in terms of 19 time that the board talked about that issue at 20 that meeting? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do you meet privately with Dr. McGuire about once 23 a month, either with him individually or with 24 possibly one other board member? 25 A. Yes. 11 1 Q. And what is that? Lunch basically? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And I assume you discuss school business at that 4 point? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. The Court found in its court order-- Have you 7 seen the court order? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Let me tell you one thing that the Court found in 10 the court order, "The closing of these three 11 schools is part of a greater plan that clearly 12 will result in future construction of"--and that's 13 in parentheses--"one or two additional elementary 14 schools in the years to come." Do you agree that 15 this school corporation has a greater plan that 16 involves the building of one or two additional 17 elementary schools in years to come? 18 A. At this point, I don't know. 19 Q. Okay. Can you tell me as a member of the board of 20 trustees why you voted yes for Dr. McGuire's plan 21 to close the three schools? 22 A. We needed the cost savings to keep the rest of the 23 program going. 24 Q. Okay. Did Dr. McGuire explain to the board what 25 those cost savings were? 12 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And how much do you recall him saving? 3 A. We looked at that exhibit that you've been handing 4 around. That was the basis of it. 5 Q. Are you talking about H? 6 A. I don't know what it is but that one. 7 Q. Yeah. Let's find that. Mr. Wheeler has placed in 8 front of you Exhibit H. Is that the document that 9 you were just referring to? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. When you voted to approve Dr. McGuire's 12 recommendations, did you have Exhibit H in front 13 of you? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did anyone ask any questions about how it was 16 going to be possible to save the kind of money 17 that's listed in the left column here for these 14 18 employment positions? Was there any in-depth 19 discussion of that? 20 A. I don't know that there was. 21 Q. You've lived in the community for several years? 22 A. Uh-huh. 23 Q. Do you think there's any chance that any of the 24 three townships will be able to afford to accept 25 the buildings? 13 1 A. I have no idea. 2 Q. Has anybody ever discussed that with you? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you think it's likely--and I realize I'm asking 5 a wiggle word question there--but is it likely 6 that the school board corporation is going to be 7 able to close three schools, move equipment and 8 supplies, reconfigure and remodel six schools, 9 outfit portable classrooms, provide for 10 transportation and moving employees to other 11 schools without incurring any costs that would 12 have to be offset against that projected savings 13 of $300,000? 14 A. If Rande and Dr. McGuire say it's so, I agree. 15 Q. Okay. What will you as a school board member do 16 if come September, if the three schools are 17 allowed to close and 437 students are transferred 18 in, it's determined that the remaining elementary 19 schools are truly overcrowded? Do you have any 20 thought in mind as to what you would want to do as 21 a school board to alleviate that problem? 22 A. As Dr. McGuire suggested, we could move the 6th 23 grade to the middle school. 24 Q. Let's talk about that for a minute. You were here 25 when we looked at the exhibit in which Dr. McGuire 14 1 has said in September of last year that there was 2 very little support for moving the 6th grade. Did 3 you hear that testimony? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Do you think that's true, that there's very little 6 support for moving the 6th grade? 7 A. That I don't know but change causes lots of 8 problems. 9 Q. I think I would agree with that. So you would 10 back moving the 6th grade; is that correct? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. You mention that you had three children? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And at one point in time all three of those, I 15 assume, correct me if I'm wrong, reached the age 16 of 12? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. I've been through that four times and the age of 19 12 is a very interesting age. Do you have any 20 concern at all the prepubescent child at the age 21 of 12 maybe should not be in with children that 22 have a little more street sense than they do? 23 A. My feeling is that the staff that we have is 24 dedicated, and I don't think there would be 25 problems as a result of the mixing of the two 15 1 because our staff is competent and they would take 2 care of those situations. 3 Q. So I take it, Mr. Folk, that you don't have any 4 concerns about crowded conditions, because if the 5 conditions are crowded, then you will move the 6th 6 grade? 7 A. I don't understand that question. 8 Q. Let me rephrase that. That's a fair response. 9 Let me break it down in two parts: Are you 10 concerned when the three schools are closed, that 11 there will be an overcrowded condition in the 12 remaining schools to which the students are going 13 to be placed? 14 A. From the information that the board has been 15 given, I don't see that's going to be a problem. 16 Q. Okay. And I'm going to ask you a hypothetical. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. If it is a problem come September, late August, is 19 it a fact that you would vote to move the 6th 20 grade to help alleviate the problem? 21 A. If that's the administration's recommendation. 22 Q. Would it be fair to say that you would vote for 23 any administration recommendation? 24 A. No. 25 Q. When Dr. McGuire makes a recommendation to the 16 1 board with no other options, do you feel any 2 pressure as a board member to go along with his 3 recommendation-- 4 A. No. 5 Q. Let me finish the question. --because the 6 recommendation came from a man who is in 7 authority? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Do you feel any pressure from your peers on the 10 board to go along because they're going along with 11 the superintendent? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you engage in social activities with Dr. 14 McGuire besides the lunch we talked about? 15 A. No. 16 Q. How about Mr. Thorpe? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Dr. McGuire indicated that he meets with the board 19 members at least once a month. Do you meet with 20 him more often than once a month apart from the 21 board meeting? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did Dr. McGuire tell you not to attend the April 24 mediation in this case? 25 A. Now, what are you talking about? 17 1 Q. There was a mediation in the lawsuit that brings 2 us all together-- 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. --in April where a mediator from Indianapolis came 5 up to try to get the two sides to sit down and 6 mediate a settlement between us. My question is 7 did Dr. McGuire tell you not to attend? 8 A. I think that came from the school attorney. 9 Q. Okay. So a school attorney told you not to 10 attend? 11 A. Yeah. 12 Q. Do you recall which school attorney? 13 MR. WHEELER: I'm going to object at this 14 point. It's attorney-client privilege. 15 MR. PRICE: I think what you said is 16 clearly attorney-client privilege. As to which 17 attorney said it, I don't think that falls under 18 any known attorney-client privilege exception. 19 You're not telling him not to answer, are you? 20 MR. WHEELER: I'm going to ask him not to 21 answer and ask to strike the last answer. 22 MR. PRICE: You are telling him not to 23 answer? 24 MR. WHEELER: Correct. 25 BY MR. PRICE: 18 1 Q. Did Dr. McGuire apart from the school attorneys 2 concur in the recommendation that you not attend 3 the mediation? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you know at that time that you were a named 6 defendant in the case? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Have you had the opportunity to read Dr. McGuire's 9 affidavit in this case? 10 A. No. 11 Q. You haven't read it at all? 12 A. No. 13 Q. You know roughly how much money this school 14 corporation spends annually; correct? 15 A. Well, yeah, from what Rande reports to us, yes. 16 Q. Do you believe as a board member that the only 17 place the $300,000 would have been pared from the 18 spending was the closing of those three schools or 19 were there some other alternatives? 20 A. There's no other alternatives that I was aware of 21 so it had to come from there. 22 Q. The-- Strike that. Have you had the opportunity 23 to read the Odle McGuire Shook study? 24 A. No. 25 Q. When you taught if you can recall, do you know 19 1 what the average ratio of students to you in the 2 classroom was roughly? 3 A. It depends on the class. If it was a hands-on 4 class of a lab type, it was 25. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. Lecture was about 28. 7 Q. About 28? 8 A. 28. 9 Q. Is there any level at the elementary stage-- I 10 realize you were a high school teacher, but is 11 there any level at the elementary stage, any ratio 12 I should say, that you are not comfortable going 13 above? 14 A. I can't answer that because I don't know the 15 background. 16 Q. You were here when Mr. Thorpe testified and we 17 looked at the numbers. If we need to we can pull 18 them out. Are you acquainted with the fact as a 19 board member that gross expenditures minus 20 expected expenditures for the last four years 21 beginning in 2000 and going up to the end of 2003 22 for the entire budget increased approximately 33 23 percent? 24 A. No, I don't know that. 25 Q. Do you have executive board meetings? 20 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you recall any executive board meetings at 3 which anything except personnel issues, litigation 4 or the purchase or leasing of real estate was 5 discussed? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Does Rande Thorpe attend executive board meetings? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Are board members, when you're on the board, 10 brought in to discussions of disciplinary measures 11 such as the case of a teacher showing the 12 beheading of Nicholas Berg? 13 A. No. 14 Q. You don't get into that? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Does the president of the board, Mr. Allebach, 17 vote when there's a tie vote or does he generally 18 vote? 19 A. He generally votes. 20 Q. Now, you've told me about the meetings that you 21 have with Dr. McGuire and sometimes with another 22 board member. Do you have meetings with a board 23 member during an average month apart from what you 24 just testified? 25 A. No. 21 1 Q. How about contacts or conversations? 2 A. No. 3 Q. You don't speak by phone? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you know Ken Adams? 6 A. I know of him. 7 Q. You don't know him personally? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Have you ever discussed any of the school 10 controversies with him? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did you agree with Dr. McGuire when he recommended 13 that the bonding program, the 1028 program, be 14 withdrawn because of the filing of 1,000 15 signatures asking for a remonstrance? Do you 16 think he was right to withdraw it? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. He stated at the time he did that because he 19 didn't want to split the community up? 20 A. Uh-huh. 21 Q. Did you hear him say that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you think there's any current split in the 24 community based upon this controversy over the 25 three schools being closed? 22 1 A. Not that I'm aware of. 2 Q. You haven't heard any controversy about that? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Were you at the court hearing on the 7th of May? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Were you advised either by counsel or by Dr. 7 McGuire not to show up? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Did they tell you-- Not your attorney but 10 did Dr. McGuire tell you why? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did anybody tell you that there were over 400 13 people that signed in that day? 14 A. No. 15 Q. At the meeting of your board on the 17th of this 16 month, did you hear Rande Thorpe state that funds 17 will not be available to finish removing asbestos 18 tiles from Lake View Middle School? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. Following the mediation in April, you attended a 21 meeting, did you not, where for lack of a better 22 phrase, Mr. Yeiter and Mr. England were talked to 23 by Dr. McGuire and other members of the board 24 about the mediation? Do you recall that? 25 A. Yes. 23 1 Q. Do you recall that at that meeting there was a 2 report made to the board that the plaintiffs in 3 this case had come up with three or four different 4 ideas for trying to solve the case, and do you 5 recall that one of those was to put before the 6 voters the question of whether the three schools 7 should be closed? 8 A. Uh-huh. 9 Q. What happened? Did the board discuss that issue 10 or not discuss it? 11 A. We discussed it and we decided we wouldn't 12 abrogate our position as board members and we 13 would do our job. 14 Q. And the end result of that was not to have a 15 referendum; is that correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. When you're asked-- Are you ever asked questions 18 from the public at board meetings to which you 19 give a "no comment" response? 20 A. I can't remember that part. 21 Q. Okay. Do you have a policy on your board as to 22 whether or not members of the board trustees are 23 encouraged to return phone calls to constituents? 24 A. I don't know any policy that we have. 25 Q. What is your personal policy? 24 1 A. I've never had any calls so I didn't return any. 2 Q. You've never had any on your whole time on the 3 board? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. Do you know how much applicants there were for the 6 position of superintendent when Dr. McGuire was 7 hired? 8 A. About five approximately. 9 Q. And do you know how much of the board voted for 10 his being hired? 11 A. Obviously all of them. 12 Q. Every everybody did? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All seven? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Have you ever had the occasion to disconnect or 17 hang up on constituents who called to discuss 18 school issues? I guess you said you never had 19 anybody call? 20 A. I've never had anybody call. 21 Q. Do you believe as a school board that you listen 22 to and are responsive to the taxpayers of the 23 community? 24 A. Yes, sir. I've had four years of it. 25 Q. Or at least three-and-a-half? 25 1 A. Yeah. 2 Q. And the board interacts with the public and asks 3 the public for what the public wants? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What's the transition team? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Do you know if there are any teaching staff or 8 parents involved in the transition team? 9 A. I don't know what the transition team is so I 10 can't answer that. 11 Q. Do you know that under the plan to close the three 12 elementary schools that some elementary students 13 will be bussed almost 16 miles one way? 14 A. I don't know about that. 15 Q. Do you think it's possible to move 437 kids to 16 different schools that are farther away and not 17 incur additional cost? 18 A. The transportation director said they could so I 19 accepted it. 20 Q. I asked Dr. McGuire if the board had ordered the 21 study of the social, economic or cultural impact 22 on the communities of Claypool, Silver Lake and 23 Atwood, and I believe his answer was no. As I 24 board member, do you think that would be a good 25 idea to look into what the impact will be on those 26 1 three communities even if you go ahead and close 2 the schools? 3 A. Because of our economic condition, no. 4 Q. Have you considered changing your mind concerning 5 the closing of the three schools? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Have you had any reservations at all about it? 8 A. No. 9 Q. So as we sit here today, the 28th day of May 2004, 10 you believe that it's a good idea to close the 11 three schools? 12 A. Yes. 13 MR. PRICE: Okay. Can you just give us a 14 minute here. 15 (Short recess.) 16 BY MR. PRICE: 17 Q. Mr. Foth, just one more question. In the period 18 of time that you've been on the school board-- 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 Q. --tell me for each one of the three schools, how 21 many times you've visited the schools? Let's 22 start with Atwood. 23 A. Once. 24 Q. And when was that? 25 A. I don't remember. It was right after I came on 27 1 board. 2 Q. Okay. What about Claypool? 3 A. Once. 4 Q. When was that? 5 A. The following year. 6 Q. The following year would be 2000? 7 A. Yeah, approximately. I don't know the exact 8 dates. I've visited all three of them. 9 Q. The same thing with Silver Lake is one time? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. You're not sure when? 12 A. No. 13 MR. PRICE: That's all I have. 14 CROSS-EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. WHEELER: 16 Q. Just a couple of follow-up questions very briefly. 17 Would it be fair to say that this-- The impact of 18 the school closing is something that's been a 19 topic of both board discussion and both public 20 comment at board meetings fairly frequently? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. For the last several years? 23 A. All four years I've been on the board. 24 Q. All right. And with respect to your board 25 minutes, and I know we've seen some of them, you 28 1 have fairly extensive board minutes; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And those include the public comments session? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And board members comment on the comments that's 7 received? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. There's interaction between the public and board 10 members? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Rather than ask you specific things, those would 13 be reflected in the board minutes rather than ask 14 you specifically about them? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. WHEELER: That's all. 17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. WHEELER: 19 Q. Just one question as a follow-up. Has the 20 interaction between the board and the public 21 changed any in the last year in terms of how the 22 public can interact with the board? 23 A. I'm not sure I understand what you're asking me. 24 Q. Have there been any restrictions placed on the 25 amount of time or the nature of the discussion? 29 1 A. No. 2 Q. None at all? 3 A. No. 4 MR. PRICE: Okay. 5 RECROSS-EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. WHEELER: 7 Q. Let me ask one follow-up question I actually 8 ommitted. With respect to your position as a 9 teacher, you've spent a lot of time-- Let me ask 10 this: Did you hold any positions with the 11 teacher's union? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What were those? 14 A. I was the treasurer. 15 Q. For how long? 16 A. Approximately 20 years. 17 Q. All right. Would you be part of the bargaining 18 team? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And would it be fair to say that on occasion you 21 would take positions adverse to the school board 22 or school corporation's position as a member of 23 the bargaining team? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Would those discussions sometimes become heated? 30 1 A. I wouldn't say heated. They were-- We agreed to 2 disagree. 3 MR. WHEELER: Fair enough. That's all I 4 have. Thank you. 5 FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. PRICE: 7 Q. You are not currently an officer of the teacher's 8 union, are you? 9 A. No. No. 10 MR. PRICE: Thank you. 11 MR. WHEELER: We'll waive signature. 12 (The deposition concluded at 3:23 p.m.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 2 I, Lori Matthaidess, a Notary Public in and for the 3 County of DeKalb and State of Indiana hereby certify 4 there appeared before me on Friday, May 28, 2004, Jim 5 Folk, who was duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole 6 truth and nothing but the truth to questions propounded 7 at the taking of the foregoing deposition in a cause now 8 pending and undetermined in said court. 9 I further certify that I then and there reported in 10 machine shorthand the proceedings at the said time and 11 place; that the proceedings were then transcribed from my 12 original shorthand notes; and that the foregoing 13 transcript is a true and correct record hereof. 14 IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this 15 30th day of May, 2004. 16 17 18 ______________________________________ Lori F. Matthaidess 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter Notary Public, State of Indiana 20 Residence: DeKalb County My Commission Expires: December 15, 2011 21 22 23 24 25